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PORTER ROCKWELL

Novelist trapped in a techie's body!
Articles Posted: 37  Links Seeded: 13
Member Since: 8/2010  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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Science and Public Policy

Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:33 AM EST
evolution, science, climate-change, public-policy, flu-shot
By Porter Rockwell
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Climate Change, Evolution, Flu Shots and lots of other questions are public policy battle grounds, especially in forums like this, where science is invoked by both sides. How do you figure out what the truth is?

The original inspiration for this article came from an article I found at Weather.com:

Flu Spreads Across U.S., Right on Cue

This is a good example of the kind of ... not "junk science" but certainly "sponsored consumer science" ... that you will find spread across the net like billboard signs on a freeway. It's written by the "Content Manager" at Weather.com. I've done similar work for more than a decade now. You can be sure that all of the material used in the article comes from industry sources. There's nothing there that wasn't supplied directly, or at least selected, by someone with an agenda. That doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means that you can't trust it without some sort of corroboration.

My wife and I have been flu shot non-believers for decades now. She was a public employee in a lab environment and was required to get flu shots for years. I wasn't. She got the flu every time she got a shot. I never did. More recently, I got a horrible case of the flu two years ago that put me down to the point that I couldn't even walk for several days. But at the time, I was up against a publication deadline (technical book) and working about 14-7 (Really!) just before I came down with it. I think the stress had a lot to do with it. My wife, right there in the house with me, never did get it. Neither of us have had a flu shot for decades.

But this kind of individual experience doesn't confirm anything either. I'm enough of a scientist to understand that you need more rigorous proof than just your own personal observations. After reading the Weather.com article and the argumentative and emotional forum posts, I decided to see if I could locate some kind of real science about it on the net.

Surprise!! (Not!) The best information I could find is summarized and footnoted with references you can read in Wikipedia. The article provided a link to The Cochrane Collaboration which concluded, as a sample:

The authors concluded that: "The available evidence is of poor quality and provides no guidance regarding the safety, efficacy or effectiveness of influenza vaccines for people aged 65 years or older."

The net-net for me was confirmatory. I'm going to continue to eat leafy green vegetables and get some exercise and sunshine every day as my personal "flu shot". (But you should read the whole thing for yourself rather than taking my word for it.)

The theme of this article, however, is not flu shots, but rather science and how to make a decision in a confused storm of conflicting claims. Here's my prescription on that.

*** Read, Read, Read! The truth is out there. Conspiracy nuts notwithstanding, you can find the truth if you look for it. It's not "1984" yet. But you can't just look for the truth in your own echo chamber. You have to actually read what people you might not agree with (or even like much) have to say about it.

*** The best, single way to decide who's lying and who's not is that advice from Watergate: "Follow the money!" Try to figure out who will make a profit from public policy being twisted one way or the other. In the case of flu shots in particular, there is a huge industry making a profit from them. Leafy green vegetables and a nice brisk walk in the sunshine doesn't provide much of a profit for anyone, however. This works for other hot-button issues like climate change, too. But I don't want to get off in the weeds on that so I won't say anything else about it.

*** Be willing to doubt yourself. The person you, personally, will lie to most often and most convincingly is yourself. The more I read about the actual way the human brain functions, the more I understand how I simply can't trust my own uncorroborated conclusions.

*** Trust the scientific method. And before that, understand the scientific method. It's responsible for everything we have today that makes us different from naked apes living in caves. This may be the step that actually takes the most work to accomplish. About.com has a nice, readable introduction here: Introduction to the Scientific Method.

Forums like this (and the one at Weather.com) are just full of nuts, fruits, and flakes. Try not to be one.

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  • Public Discussion (12)
Luther28

Very nice read. But this is America and what you ask would actually require effort and cannot be found in a sound byte.

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:17 PM EST
Porter Rockwell

Yeah ... True that.

I write for the Vine for entertainment and writing practice. I don't seriously expect much to happen as a result.

Thanks for the nice words, however.

  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:32 PM EST
blue wolf

You'd be wrong with that assesment Porter. I just read and learned.

But, then again, I'm a "progressive" if a label must be applied (terrible prisons, these labels)

  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:19 PM EST
Porter Rockwell

The world does change every second of every day. There's no certainty in what will actually happen.

And, yes, labels are prisons.

  • 1 vote
#2.2 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:33 PM EST
Reply
Physicist-retired

Porter,

Don't know if you came across this study, published in The Lancet:

Efficacy and effectiveness of influenza vaccines: a systematic review and meta-analysis

We screened 5707 articles and identified 31 eligible studies (17 randomised controlled trials and 14 observational studies).

Efficacy of TIV was shown in eight (67%) of the 12 seasons analysed in ten randomised controlled trials (pooled efficacy 59% [95% CI 51—67] in adults aged 18—65 years).

No such trials met inclusion criteria for children aged 2—17 years or adults aged 65 years or older.

Efficacy of LAIV was shown in nine (75%) of the 12 seasons analysed in ten randomised controlled trials (pooled efficacy 83% [69—91]) in children aged 6 months to 7 years.

No such trials met inclusion criteria for children aged 8—17 years.

Vaccine effectiveness was variable for seasonal influenza: six (35%) of 17 analyses in nine studies showed significant protection against medically attended influenza in the outpatient or inpatient setting.

Median monovalent pandemic H1N1 vaccine effectiveness in five observational studies was 69% (range 60—93).

It should be pointed out that the phrase:

No such trials met inclusion criteria for children aged 2—17 years or adults aged 65 years or older.

refers to the study design - not vaccine efficacy. As efficacy was found to be about 59% (on average) in adults up to the age of 65, I see no reason to assume that it disappears when one gets a year older.

In the meantime, an average of 36,000 Americans die annually due to influenza and its complications. Most are 65+ years old. With a 59% efficacy, we're talking in the neighborhood of nearly 20,000 lives potentially saved from the flu vaccine - each year.

  • 4 votes
Reply#3 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:00 AM EST
Porter Rockwell

That study is one of the studies discussed in the Wikipedia article. Wikipedia doesn't have quite as much detail as you quoted, but it is there and linked.

20,000 people per year sounds like a lot, but I classify this under a title I call, "Why isn't everyone carrying titanium umbrellas to protect against meteors?" The answer, of course, is that you can't protect against everything and even thinking of trying is silly.

To put the number in perspective, according to the National Safety Council, over 4,000 accidents per day are caused by texting whle driving. That adds up to 20,000 in fewer than four days. Heart Disease, the leading cause of death, adds up to 20,000 in less than a week, not a year. Besides, your statistic is not directly compared with my remedy of choice, leafy green vegetables and a brisk walk in the sunshine. The study is also designed to detect positive results, not negative ones. The study does not assure us that unintended consequences are absent. I can't prove it, of course, but I'm willing to gamble that leafy green vegetables and a brisk walk in the sun has fewer negative side effects.

One of my main points, however, "Follow the money!" is not addressed at all. I remain convinced that much of the pharma we are subjected to is simply the result of the fact that a lot of people are making a lot of money, not that it actually does that much good.

Thanks for posting! I've read your posts in other topics and they're usually right on target!

  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:14 AM EST
Reply
Castor Bridge

Porter, outstanding post. Too many articles posted here are written by so-called scientists who believe in post normal science. Even some posters who claim to be scientists don't have a clue about the scientific method.

    Reply#4 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:27 PM EST
    Porter Rockwell

    Thanks ... but (mainly for future reference in case you see obstreperous comments from me in a different context) keep in mind my previous reply:

    I write for the Vine for entertainment and writing practice.

    If I'm dealing with some political name caller, I'm more than happy to decend to the same level just for the fun of it.

      Reply#5 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:46 PM EST
      RGoodfellow

      Excellent conclusions, if I may add suggestion, when "researching" the "facts" of an issue of contention, try using more reliable resources than wikipedia, or other website that are written by people who may well know less than you on the subject. Libraries, college campuses, and believe it or not, even government agencies are great sources of data.

        Reply#6 - Mon Mar 5, 2012 10:47 AM EST
        Porter Rockwell

        I agree that a good library is an excellent source of information, but Wikipedia is far more accessible and I think it's quite reliable.

        In my own field (computer software) where I know what the facts are, I have never found them to contain incorrect or unreliable information. Their stuff is extensively footnoted and invariably well researched.

        But more to the point, Wikipedia benefits from from a long term influence that is much like the scientific method itself: informed peer review.

        I have heard people criticize Wikipedia because "anybody can change it". Ummmm ... not quite true. Anybody can try. And as soon as they do make a change, other people look at the change and the debate starts about whether the change is justified. The debate is open and there are rules. If you're interested in greater substantiation, you can read the debate too.

        I recall when Sarah Palin made those outrageous statements about Paul Revere, right-wingers tried to justify them with some equally outrageous edits to Wikipedia. The debate about that was hugely informative. The end result was that Wikipedia was modified to include the right wing "but, but's ..." (They were historical facts, however minor and diversionary.) But the central thrust of the history was restored to something very close to its original content.

        Science fact can be relied on nearly all the time for the same reason Wikipedia can.

        • 2 votes
        #6.1 - Tue Mar 6, 2012 10:16 AM EST
        Physicist-retired

        Well said, Porter. I agree, especially with this:

        Science fact can be relied on nearly all the time for the same reason Wikipedia can.

        Peer review.

        And in April of this year, we'll have the results of a scientific study of Wiki's accuracy. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

        • 3 votes
        #6.2 - Tue Mar 6, 2012 10:24 AM EST
        Porter Rockwell

        Yeah ... One of my favorite examples, also quoted frequently by 'creationists' to support their view that fossil evidence of evolution is contrived, is "Piltdown Man".

        Piltdown Man was a fraudulent human evolution "missing link" that was exhibited in England for decades (1912 to 1953). When it was discovered that it was constructed out of fragments of other remains, creationists could be heard from Rome, Italy to Rome, Georgia trumpeting, "SEEE!!! SEEEEEEE!"

        The thing they fail to understand is that the owner of Piltdown Man (Arthur Smith Woodward) did not allow scientific examination while he was alive. When scientists were allowed to get their hands on it (Woodward died), the scientists themselves pronounced it a fraud. Even before then, competent scientists doubted it's authenticity, but expressed their doubts with proper scientific reservations because they didn't have enough actual evidence.

        Piltdown Man is not an example of how science can't be trusted. It's an example of how science actually works!

        • 1 vote
        #6.3 - Tue Mar 6, 2012 12:01 PM EST
        Reply
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